Ciera Rogers - Fashion Designer & Founder of BABES | The Outsider Advantage

looking what you have and using that to push you towards your goal. Solving a problem is the best way to start a business. If you have options, yeah, then maybe like I'll keep interviewing, but if it's between like you having somewhere to live or not, live, I believe that you would. Fix that problem and there's an open space in the market, we can do it. Your audience will find you, so just start, see what works. If something doesn't work, hit it, and then find something that works again. And that's that. I just know how to sell things, so sometimes it's the way that you're packaging something and then sometimes it's just the product and people don't want it. We've all built our following and they're literally they took it away from us. It's a scam. I'm not selling clothes. I'm selling confidence. That is your foundation. Welcome to success story. I'm your host, Scott Clary. The success story podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. Very exciting news. HubSpots inbound converts is back, which means you got a clear your schedules, mark your calendars, get the sitter, three jam pack days from September 18th through the 20th live and Boston, you're going to hear inspirational narratives, candid interviews on the highs and lows of incredibly notable figures, business owners, politicians, you're going to learn from successful entrepreneurs like Ryan Reynolds and Serena Williams on how they reinvented themselves and their businesses to achieve massive success. They're going to gain valuable insights from industry leaders, visionaries on effective strategies for personal and professional growth and there's so much more. And on top of all that, I'm speaking again, this is my third inbound. So I'll be doing a segment. So if you want to hear from Ryan Reynolds, Serena Williams or you want to hear from me, go to inbound.com, go see the lineup and grab your tickets today. I'll see you in Boston. What does an outsider mean? What is an outsider? How are you an outsider? How is somebody listening to this in outsider or how are they not an outsider? I feel like it's hard to not be an outsider. I haven't met many insiders. There are some I grew up with people, but I'm an outsider because of my background. I didn't have a lot of money growing up. I didn't have a lot of connections. My dad was a little crazy and left and I just didn't have a typical upbringing or many chances in life, which is relatable to a lot of people. That's my definition. And I think that's super relatable to a lot of people, but I also want to highlight something. This is sort of more from my perspective and you can speak on this as well. Because I didn't have a tough upbringing, but I also understand that my upbringing, it didn't set me up for entrepreneurial success. So I think that sometimes not that having a tough upbringing is good, but I think that it forces you to look at all the options. And I think there's a lot of people here that maybe didn't even have a tough upbringing. And I think they are actually very likely to just fall into a nine to five, maybe something comfortable because that's all they knew as well. Even when you had a tough upbringing, you fall into what you know. That's probably the chances of following to something that you know is very high. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you can be on the outside. I mean, even if you're an insider, if you walk into something new, like I'm sure when you stood for your podcast, you're like, what is this? What's going on? Like if someone's not walking in your hand or walking you through it, you can like be on the outside of a lot of things or feel like you you are. So any anytime in life, you can feel like you're on the outside, but it just pushes you in a motivation to like figure things out. That's really like that. I like that. I like that idea. So outsider is not just where you came from. Outsider is this constant state of understanding that if you're taking on something new, like you do have to understand your limitations and what you know, what you don't know, but understand that that is the mindset that everyone has when they first start something. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's just it's like, look at the board. Let's figure out what we have. I mean, looking at what we don't have is not going to help us. It's just going to make bad. So it's about looking what you have and using that to push you towards your goal. So talk to me about your story. So obviously, you had not the easiest life growing up. You were in L.A. You had an unconventional upbringing. You were homeless at one point as well. So maybe just walk readers through your or that's some readers. Fingers crossed the readers too because you have a book coming out, but that's that's a whole other thing. So right now they're listening. So just the origin story. So we're just getting to know each other. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean? This is what we do. Oh, no, we moved around a lot. By move around, I mean, like from pouch to couch or to a car, or I was fortunate not to be on the streets. I had a car. So I look back in my homelessness with like thankfulness that I wasn't on the streets. But I we I technically didn't have a room and so I was like 17 or a door to close or a house to say that's my house. And those are where my things are. My mom was always just trying to make a way. She was a trying to be an entrepreneur in different like versions like my entire life. So I saw her hustle a lot and that's kind of where I got my gist for fashion and hustling. When I moved to L.A. I still didn't have anything even after our graduate from college. I thought, you know, graduate from college, we all thought like, of course the job is just going to be handed to me right when I right after I get my diploma. I don't know if I'm a terrible interviewee, but I just could not find a job. I mean, and I'm thankful that I didn't because it pushed me to start my business. So when I came out here, I also still didn't have anything. But that pushed me. Wow, but that's after that's after college. So what the how old are you that? I was 23 23. Okay. Cool. I tried it. I tried for the longest to find something and he stood where I from, but it just it just wasn't cutting it. So I came out here and I expected for things to fall in my lap again. But the L.A. is very like competitive. There's a lot of expectations that didn't happen is really expensive. So a lot of things that I thought we're going to go right didn't go right. And then that pushed me into where to start babes my brand. That's that's so scary. And so why do you think you took that entrepreneurial leap like just go back to your sort of sort of what you were thinking through at that moment because if I was going to put myself in your shoes and I had nothing but like failure and rejection and failure and rejection on all these jobs, I don't think I would have the balls to go start a business. I think I'd be like shit like I need to tweak my resume. I better get a job like you know waiting or something that can pay the bills and then just keep trying keep trying because I'm not even succeeding at getting a job which is supposed to be like the easy thing post college. How who am I to go start you know a multi-million dollar business with no experience because something like clicked and switched and I don't think that that is the norm and the normal course of action for most people which is amazing but I want to figure that out so other people can emulate that. You know my first thought when you said I don't think that I would I don't believe you I feel like if your back is up against the wall and someone's like like you really have no option you're like you're going to be so when I got out here I have a trauma with being homeless or being poor so if you start me with that it's like something clicked just like I'm in war like I need to like my back I need to make something happen so when I came out here she allowed my my friend allowed me on her couch but then she was like listen you have to pay rent or you got to get out so I'm like oh man I must be homeless again oh no this is not going to happen and I need to come up with some idea you have to you I mean you'd be surprised of what you could accomplish when you're back is up against the wall if you have options yeah then maybe like I'll keep you interviewing but if it's between like you having somewhere to live or not live I believe that you would. So okay so then the follow up question is so what you're talking about is basically using rock bottom or the threat of rock bottom to take action so then so maybe you're right you know I was I had a super I had a super comfortable upbringing I never never really worried about being homeless which is a blessing and a privilege for sure but then somebody listening to this they're saying I'm still scared shitless I don't want to have to architect this really shitty circumstance to go build the business that's not fun either no you don't want to art it's it's just like that that's my story everyone has their you know success I had to go through that I didn't have to like it was unfortunate but I used what I went through to get to where I'm at I don't want you to have to architect it but there is something that you can pull out of you to get your stuff together I'm trying it to curse you can you can swear as much as you want as fine yeah yeah it's interesting because I don't want you to have to but it's just there's so many people out there and those are the people I'm talking to I'm not going to people that are actually like you you're back may feel a bit as a wall you never really had like you feel like there's like this unwritten cold to success you don't have like the answers and I'm here to tell you that you kind of already do like you've already been through stuff you've already conquered everything you just need to dig into yourself and pull it out as tough so how did you do that so at that point I mean you had fear if fear was driving you to a degree obviously like I mean you didn't want to go back on the street so how do you do that what was the first step when you started to build so babes was was that your first version of entrepreneurship no it was probably a ton of other shit that didn't work out I just know because I don't know because I feel like I can sell anything um but that's the first thing that worked immediately and that's why I knew like okay I have something so that's when I started to put energy I started with vintage because that's all I knew because we started my life one because we didn't have money and two just because my mom's like really into it so I I started with vintage that didn't click but whenever I um launched babes and during the I was lucky to launch in a time where there was like a huge open space in the market for that type of brand because back then for every woman weren't being celebrated um and there weren't any affordable options for us so once I launched that and it clicked I knew I had something and I put everything that I had into that so you so the thing that actually worked was kind of like building a company for yourself based on your lived experience that's what we do I mean we all know like but solving a problem is the best way to start a business like find what you actually struggle with or what you feel like can be fixed and there's no other option and if you can do that and fix that problem and there's an open space in the market we can do it that's amazing that's so smart because you know what there's like there's this incorrect version of entrepreneurship that you have to be this like Stanford drop out that goes on to build it's trillion dollar tech company and it's so stupid because I think that holds a lot of people up I think that people over complicate entrepreneurship and they over complicate what it has to be and then they end up burning out and failing because they see you know latest tech mogul that built a billion dollar company but that that's where you get the 99% failure rate when you think about how many entrepreneurs fail but when you figure out a problem you have no and this is what you did it doesn't have to be big like in a comparison is like great crazy tries that that's something I'm working on it's trying to stop comparing to what do you mean what do you mean by that like if I kept if I looked at like stories like that and compared mine said theirs I'd never start I'd be like I there's no way I could accomplish that so it's that's dangerous that's a tricky road to to be on I wouldn't I wouldn't do that I wouldn't compare I would just focus it within you and figure and be like we I mean the the best side I wish I would have came up with Uber or postmates you know what I mean like we like if we sit and think it's like dang like that was like a good idea if I if only I would have done it first like there's so many like little things little problems that we could fix that we come up with it's it can start off small what was the what was the reason for for like the brand babes what was the inspiration behind the name my friend came one of my friends came up with it I just thought it was a cute name and there's no deep story behind it honestly oh shit I wish I had a deep story for you I just thought like at the time the word babe like this is back in like 2012 like I'm a black girl obviously you could see from the podcast it wasn't like a black term to use it was more like like hot babe you know it's like oh yeah you know the same um so I just thought it would be interesting for like a black old brand to call it themselves based at that time I thought it was interesting and it was um now it's like a normal word to use for like literally all women on social media but back then it wasn't so just it was different so we're building this no no I know I love it I mean doesn't have to be and by the way like everything that you've done is a great entrepreneurial lesson because what I'm trying to show with what you've built is how overthinking can also kill your idea so how many people overthink on okay I got to build the next uh Facebook or meta or whatever the hell they want to call it right I got to build something that's worth a hundred million and I got to figure out the name and put together a pitch deck and a brand kit and all this I'm exhausted listening to it it's got a percent my last chapter in my book is just start because a lot of people just don't start once you start you'll find your audience will find you like you think you know what bays isn't my brain anymore it's their brand and they tell me what they want and I've learned that like along the way I came up with an idea they accepted it they told me along the way they helped me make changes they're like hey we don't like this hey we like this if I'm selling more of this I know this is my this is more of my best selling brand if I'm not selling this and maybe this isn't a product that I shouldn't be selling like it's not mind anymore it's theirs so just start see what works it's something doesn't work hit it and then find something that works again and that's that yeah how did you know how do you know when to quit something versus when you just haven't given it enough time I don't know there reminds me a shart angle and he's like just take it in the back and shoot it yeah Kevin O'Leary right and it's through wonderful he said that all the time like because you it's like he's like if it's not making money like you it's no but um that's hard to say because a lot of the first year is hard and it's such a competitive if there's not a want I say if there's not a want within the first year at least when I'm not saying to make like a bunch of money I'm talking about like okay that's a good idea or you know like some views or like some some clicks or something if there's not a want within the first year I feel like you need to either like pivot the way that you're selling or marketing your product or you take it in the back and shoot it because you don't want to waste your time and if you're an entrepreneur like me I could sell toilet paper or like I could sell like hair products like I know I just know how to sell things so sometimes it's the way that you're packaging something and then sometimes it's just the product and people don't want it and you just have to like be honest with yourself yeah because you put so much of your you know what you know what difficult entrepreneurs they they wrap their identity into the business and then they keep it going for way too long honestly my identity is wrapped in veins because I've had it for so long 12 years and it's it's tricky because it's like yeah it's hard not to wrap your identity I don't know how not to I don't even know how to give that advice but I do know that there are certain products that I've loved myself that I've had to just let go like they don't want it they don't want it so do make it for yourself but they don't want it but don't waste your time you know with that when when you okay so what was your playbook for because obviously this is a hyper competitive it wasn't a hyper competitive mark I think it's hyper competitive market like now yes oh hundred percent yes so but when you started it how did you how did you sort of like carve out a little bit of the market get some traction get people that the opposite of what everybody else doing it was like it but it was true to me so it all worked out my story just they'll happen to work out because it was true to me like so when I came out on social media everybody was like remember everybody was smoothing their skin and looking crazy yeah why has that changed or well not really but it's they just got better at it well that's another conversation but they I just came out and I was like the natural girl like I'm not gonna edit I don't have time first of all and I'm not very good at it so I just don't want to do it so that's how I naturally sit out I did the opposite of what everyone was doing on the internet at this moment back then with Instagram algorithm was actually great and people saw your post um that was two I'm laughing because I don't want to have a whole podcast complaining about Instagram and social media but if you live on it you could it's terrible it's a scam what they've done you built we've all built our following and they're literally they took it away from us we we helped them grow this app I'm sorry I'm just about you want to have to post this because they're not gonna error this this goes up on YouTube they don't give a shit okay we help them build this app for free and now you're they're you're charging us like making us pay to to reach the following that we brought to that I feel like it's really scammy and I don't I don't appreciate it I'm not accepting it no but it's like it's like the so this is the issue in 2024 because nobody knows how to launch a company anymore it's very difficult like how do you build an audience right organically so then it becomes very expensive so I mean I've built an audience over the past six years but for most entrepreneurs like I'm not gonna tell an entrepreneur go start a podcast for six years before you start a company maybe it's a smart move but it's difficult so difficult it's difficult you have to like really diverse I mean just like you diversify everything like your money like just like Pinterest or people forget about Tumblr like or like you know just anything like you're on YouTube or LinkedIn I started doing like promotions on LinkedIn and it's like because people don't expect to be like sold on theirs it's just about being creative you know in this market that would none of us understand so when you started you were super heavy on Instagram if you started in 2024 you could no longer build this company on Instagram nope yeah I'd have to I'd have to maybe TikTok right when it first came out I'd have to find my way in um and it wouldn't even be me visually I would use someone else why is that because I don't think I think what from what I've studied I think that the more different you look or if you have you know what I mean like something I don't know you know to mean yeah like it's like it's it's like not like the the the stereotypical model looking person that kills it on these platforms anymore you need to be different in some kind of way so I would literally like hire someone that is not me to do my brand if I were to be launching today but that's just my mindset because I'm like but you see you you study content you see what you see what's going viral you see what's hidden people looking at like do I want to watch this or do I want to see another like regular looking girl sells you know it's so strange though I I've thought about this because I've seen I've seen accounts with people that aren't it classically good looking massive audiences right and then I wonder like well all those people that were buying products from models 5 or 10 years ago they still exist so where did that like section of the market go where are they buying their products now which brands are they looking at as as representations of themselves because like the whole concept of a model is it's what you wish you could look like that was the whole traditional concept of a model I wish I could look at this person's very aspirational I want to I remember in high school like for as a guy it was all Abercrombie and Fitch and then like all the guys were like jacked playing football it was like a little bit a little bit questionable some of the ads but whatever but now if I if I look at brands I mean I have my brands that I buy from but I don't really pay attention to the models anymore that's not like these are aspirational so that's just my personal opinion but obviously there's a lot more of me and there's a lot more of you and there's a lot more people to feel maybe not represented in in marketing so where do these people go or how do you tap into these groups because they still have money they still buy product I think they either started their own brands everyone should be an entrepreneur literally like in 2020 one I feel like so many businesses were started most of my models now have brands are most of really my customers have brands because that I mean we're all in this entrepreneurial state of mind like no everyone knows that now like I mean we we can create ads on our phones so we're now we're like hiring less graphic designers everyone feels like they can do everything so it's people are starting their own stuff and I think people are just tired of being sold to by the same like I'm I'm over it like I wasn't thinking different we were used to the model selling us and hey we're scrolling past it we're overstimulated and we want something different so how do you capture so as somebody who's building a company what is your what is your advice for capturing attention regardless of whether or not it's using people or different types of creative because the goal is still to capture attention so all the models that you work with they started their own brands they're trying to capture attention all the all the customers that are starting their own brand I do believe you I mean like barriers to entry for entrepreneurship right in all time low they have AI now you have all these awesome tools you can spin up something overnight with not too much money and you don't even have to be technical anymore so you can you can go ahead and do it but how do you capture attention it depends on the product depends on what you're doing you have to just study it from there like it I mean you either want to fix a problem you want to find a pain point so like I'm selling I'm not selling clothes I'm selling confidence I'm selling like a woman's feeling good about her body so you have to find that and then you that is your foundation it really depends I can't say this is how you do it if I don't know what probably if I'm selling toilet tissue I'm selling like how does your bum feel you know what I mean like no no okay so take your example take your example so how do you sell I feel confident I've how do you sell I feel confident with I'm a woman so I know it makes me feel snatched I know it makes me feel good like women we have we don't like to blow we don't like to feel more overweight than we are like it we even if you're embracing like whatever weights you are you don't want to feel like you know what like today I'm just like extra building so I sell personally I sell the snatch I sell like you can put these leggings on and your body will be snatched I don't care what it looks like it's going to look good that's my version I'm selling often I love it I love it so you have to find a way to translate that pain point and make it so real for people and I think that also people I think that you did a really good job of figuring out what an actual pain point is as opposed to just assuming what somebody cares about or doesn't care about I think too many entrepreneurs they maybe have a little bit of an ego and they think they come up with a great pain point and then nobody in the market gives a shit it helps them it's your own that's my own thing that's something I struggle with so I know I'm like uh yeah this doesn't feel good so let me do it so it starts with me all of my products are really selfish like it starts with me like I want this and well after that then I'm like will someone else buy is this relatable like let me ask my friends like to have you ever does this work for you um and then comes the it starts with you it helps if it starts so start with you figure out the pain point um you were capturing attention on social but obviously you have to find a way to do that in 2024 what are you you didn't raise money for this company at all this was all bootstrapped right so this is all you you just like scrappiest shit yeah remember 10 to 50 50 to 100 to 500 I remember like seeing the numbers go up because I was trying to hold on to it and I'm like one day I will save $500 and then once I save $500 I was like hey I will save $1,000 I will save $10,000 very much do you think that that is an issue that entrepreneurs have they they want to see this huge 50 million hundred million dollar exit and they lose track of what actually matters at the beginning yes start small small goals get you to bigger goals in there less they're they're better on your ego and I like that you know I like I like goals and I like but I like accomplishable goals as well so it's like all right I can see myself saving $50 and once I save that I'm proud of myself and then I can move on small goals they feel better and plus I think that you have to celebrate wins I think that's one thing that people forget a lot how many times they win in their life in their career in their business and I I was thinking about this like what so I have I have a belief I believe that if you have product market fit that's that's the first assumption but I believe that if you stick with something long enough you'll find a way to make it work if you have that product market fit and if you track the KPIs removing in the right direction but I was always trying to figure out why is it so hard for people to stay on this path for so long and I think it's because they start with motivation and then they set these audacious goals and then they something doesn't work and then they focus on the negative and they don't realize if one ten thousand times already yeah a hundred percent and you're going to fill usually entrepreneurship is not it's like up and down up and down up and down like even now me twelve years later like it's going I'm there's some some days that aren't going to be good it's not going to just be like a it's when people expect this and this doesn't happen like I don't know it everything's up into the right everything's working out all the time but I've never like seen it um so let's stop expecting it and just realize that this is a failure we've learned from it we know not to do that okay let's not and let's keep moving what was your biggest I want to say failure but not failure like shit hitting the fan moment that is like traumatize you from building your business oh when I experienced success after so Kim Kardashian posted me back in 2008 I think and I was excited but then I was embarrassed of how my business looked because I felt like it wasn't like professional looking enough I felt like because a lot of the models I used were my customers a lot of the pictures were all over the place it just didn't I was insecure with the attention that I was getting at that time so I changed my business at that time dumb the dumbest thing I've ever done because I I could have I didn't realize what built me was that and and when I got all that attention I wasn't even looking like myself and yeah I could have done better during that so interesting how did you change your business like what was the I used model I used like models I wouldn't traditionally use I stopped posting as many customers because it wasn't the aesthetic because you know you wanted the aesthetic on your page yeah and now I'm like fuck the aesthetic it's about if because most people don't go to your grid anyway they're on the timeline we go to our grid more than most people I mean maybe upon an introduction of your page but after that I'm dealt with your grid I'm on my timeline so that's it yeah I switched everything up and I shouldn't did that hurt like they hurt your revenue too yeah 100% significantly when you did that and then how long did you recover after that did take long because I switched it my bet that's so fun that's so funny it's such a like literally like no if something's not going well I'm like well I'll need to have meeting meeting just me I need to have a meeting yeah something's wrong with what I'm doing it's not though I never blame the other people like oh they just don't get it I'm like wait a minute hold on something's off because it was working now it's not working it's something that either something changed with me something changed with them something changed somewhere and I knew it was me so I split it right back I just want to take a second and thank the HubSpot podcast that we're sponsoring the show's success story we've been part of their network for the past three years now if you're a podcast fan you have to check out some of the other incredible podcasts in the HubSpot podcast network like my first million hosted by Sam Parr and Sean Perry they feature famous guests like Alex or Mozie Sophia Emma Russo Hassan Minhaj sharing their secrets on how they made their first million and how to apply their learnings to capitalize on today's business trends and opportunities listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts I love I love the I love the awareness though I think that's also a major a major like winning trait the self awareness is huge so yeah we totally need that for so long in being critique a lot so it's just like now I'm like yeah that's not right like let me get this together let me fix it let me get the fixed in mode instead of the I feel like crap mode because actually do you feel it do you feel like there was an advantage from being an outsider when you built this business outside of like the the rock in a hard place outside of the rock bottom all these rock analogy but outside of the fight you feel like there's an advantage going into this yeah I feel like just being I can I can adapt and pivot better than anyone else because I'm so used to it and I'm never I wasn't comfortable growing up so I was just used to things shifting used to things not going right and that happens a lot in entrepreneurship like even now like even when trying to sell anything um so I'm just I don't get in my feelings about it that's just something I'm naturally good at and it really comes in handy in entrepreneurship talk to me about um just dominating a niche because I think you've done that super well and I think that's probably something that entrepreneurs also screw up they seem to just want to be everything to everyone so maybe just talk to me about what you've built with babes the niche that you dominate and have you thought about going outside it or do you want to stick right in it or and when do you do that too because I think if you're too general at the beginning maybe that hurts you but you can generalize later just talk to you about because I think I want to talk about you we spoke a lot about like the like you doing it now as as a concept I want to talk about niche I want to talk about the community building I think that's huge too because you done that super well um but first niche because I think that's one thing that entrepreneurs screw up to when they first start yeah with me I started it was we know it's like an underlying thing women with curves you know what I mean like it's what it means to you you know who I'm talking to though I'm talking to like women with like actual curves but there are thin women that feel like they have curves so it it's helpful I do believe that narrow narrowing it down a little bit is smart but being general with your marketing so it's like yeah I'm I'm marketing it when will cars I'm for you I'm like the place where you need to be but also you know thin women have curves too or feel like they have curves or like I could you know I could have products there but my main market it's it's important to have a main focus because then you look all over the place and they need to like when they think of something they need to think of you when you think of one with curves I want you to think of me but if I left it to general then it's that confusing I think engineering building yeah totally and you know when you think about all the different people that you serve as a brand um it's interesting though because you have the skinny women who think they have curves and then you have women with curves and then but do you feel like uh would they get the best possible would they get the best possible outcome by buying from your brand like a skinny woman with curves that if that's not who it's meant for like does that hurt your brand to include them in the marketing and include them in because women with curves don't want to see skinny women in their marketing it though like anyone like if you go to a brand for a specific thing like I'm a plus woman and I'm size three I do I want to see like a bunch of skinny models know I want to look at bodies like mine so it is it is a hurtful but you you know what I'm saying like I'm trying to I'm trying to figure out what's the balance there you want to be there's enough space for skinny women that they can be ignored you know what I mean like they're like we've we've we've um we focused on them for so many years that it's kind of like it's time it was time to make a shift so it was a safe space for me to be like women you know women but but also that's like that's the that's the competitive advantage too for you like that is a competitive advantage so I think that when you're building a business I mean forget about you know the fact that women have skinny women have been served for forever the point is you're building a business you're not trying to be this feel good thing for every person in the world you're building a business right so you have to figure okay what's the strategy to make money and if you're not being an asshole to the other groups just on including them in your marketing that's that's okay that's fine I mean you're not out to get anybody but you have your person you have your customer I think that's smart and I think that you shouldn't be you shouldn't build yeah I don't I want to build another yet another business that focuses on skinny women that wouldn't even been smart is too competitive and I don't have time to be competing with that it's yeah I despite how because of my life has been so hard I like easy things so if I find like an easy make it easy I did not want to build yet another brand and compete with like all of these other brands if there's an open space I'm gonna go over there especially if it's true to me it was just the only the smartest thing that I could do I love it it's so it's it's wild to me because you when did you start bays what year was that you started 2012 that there still wasn't more options for curvy women in 2012 it's not like this was like 30 years ago yeah right it was it was plus maybe but like ugly stuff very ugly stuff terrible or it was really bad or it was skinny there was no like medium and there weren't yeah there weren't clothes that look like mine and if there were they weren't affordable you know it's wild though yeah big thing like yeah well you know what I mean um so I just kind of like I I was lucky enough to get into I found an open space e-commerce was just like poppin instagram had just started like a year before I think um so I I had all of those things working for me at the time yeah and and it's important like there you have to understand with every with every success story there's like right time right place but I think that if you take it and people say like well that was that was luck but I disagree because if you take enough shots you'll find your own luck you just got to be aware of what's what's what's out there right so now in 2024 you want to start something different social different strategy different markets different niche whatever but you take enough shots and you're a smart person you'll make your own luck 100 if I were to start something now to have a completely different strategy it's just I'm talking about when I started something that and I think luck is a part it is a part people should talk about like hey like you know what I hate seeing is a lot of like people that are really successful and they're like this is all you have to do use the people that you know well you know Kanye that's not I don't know Kanye it's terribly vice so everyone by by the way that also doesn't always work out so if you look at Kim Kardashian's private equity firm they're actually really struggling to raise money right now so it doesn't always it's it's not like she's hurting financially not not looking for sympathy but the point is oh no luck luck does play a piece into it but I think that if I think that if you over emphasize that someone else just did it because of luck yeah you can you can complain and you can you know bitch about it but it's not going to help your situation I think that taking more shots well if you manufacture your own luck to a degree oh 100 percent it's just numbers take a bunch of shots and if you take less shots you have a less percent chance of everything in that way it's it's not simple it's hard and it fills the shitty while it's happening but we all know like the more people you date you may find somebody like exactly it's not it's just a number everything's a numbers game the end of the day you built a massive community around babes um you I mean I'm sure you have your own mentors you have people that you work with that that are part of that but how do you get this cult like following around a brand because I think everybody would love to do that but I think it's very hard to do so you didn't just sell product you created cult like following how do you do that um I have a not a personal relationship with that I stalk my customers I'm like a stalker I will stalk you after this um but I stop my customers I know what I know where they live I know what they buy versus where they live when they buy certain things they don't make any sense to me I go to their page and I'm like okay make sense she's on vacation I get it that's why she's buying like neon and I just I talked to my customers I asked them question and I take their input and when that I do take their input I make sure that they know like hey based on what she said you guys didn't like this but you like this so I'm gonna do this or what do you guys think about this color you don't like this color okay great like there's a personal relationship but they're there so they feel like they know me they feel like they have access to me and that's how I built such a well community you know I call them whatever it calls community I love it I don't know it's good it's so good I have they're like my friends I'm also they pay my bills and I appreciate them but they and they know that and I'm like listen you guys pay my bills thank you thank you for continuing to order it from me thank you for like two orders today I talked to them yearly at the end of every year when my mom was sick I sent on email like hey y'all can't do it and do it like I'm just gonna put this up shipping maybe slow this is what's going on in my life right now I can't like I have a actual they are my family um and I treat them like that so when you say that it makes so much sense and it seems like that should be the status quo for what an entrepreneur should do for their customers yeah first of all it doesn't seem like many people do that because I've bought a lot of products and I don't ever get emails like that very rarely very rarely a good friend of mine um Aaron Spivak he sold a company called hush blankets out of Canada for like 49 million and I was an awesome exit he built it for about 10 plus I don't know how many years a lot a long time but what he would do is he would actually get on zoom calls with his customers that just bought and asked them like why did you buy these blankets like I don't understand like he was like he was joking obviously he wants to promote his product but he's like please like tell me why would you buy my blankets and they first of all then he did this the entire time he's building this company like up to when he sold it and and they were buying and so not only did he get good feedback but he uh he noticed that every customer that he that he got on his zoom call with they'd be they thought they were like celebrities because the founder of this company is getting on his zoom call with and they actually ended up buying blankets for all the friends in their family and the total value of the customer was like 10x yeah people want us they want they want people are nice they're they're nice they want to support people that feel like they're thankful for it I mean yeah they buy from like Amazon and people they don't know but also like it helps to have that personal that you're a real person it helps with building and you're not like a super duper celebrity for a small people we have to work harder and that that's genius I'm going to still that idea that's smart you should that's it's a great idea you should do it 100% um but another point yes yeah listen no so business business is is hard work but it's not complicated like all the ideas and the strategies are out there yeah I'm not saying anything that's rocket science sometimes it helps to be to hear things back that you already know and that already makes sense to you that's all we're trying to do is just remind you like what you how do you okay so I have a I have a theory because I think that what we just spoke about with Aaron and what you do with your customers that's a very brick and mortar mom and pop mentality where you love your customers you care about your customers now we now start our businesses from our bedroom we drop ship stuff we set up Shopify we have no physical interaction with customers they're just a name and an email and then I don't know why maybe you have an idea why we're so scared to put ourselves out there and say hey this is my company I'm building it let me be real with you but I think it's a mixture of probably a little bit of imposter syndrome because everybody has it combined with we're isolated um and it's just it's convenient to look at customers as a number instead of a real person and I think it's a it's a very toxic way to build a business I don't think it's the way that anyone really before our generation has ever built businesses because even the the tech behemoths of the world they started with people sitting down in a room with the VC raising money sitting down in a room with an engineer like this whole virtual ice building and isolation is very new very very new so I don't know there's a lot that goes into this shitty situation where you have this unpersonal relationship with your customers but I think one of the things is imposter syndrome because I think that you don't feel like you want to put yourself out there talk about your mom being sick and saying that's why shipping slow so I'm sure you've had it because I've had it how do you get over it I don't know you know they asked me this yesterday and this is a constant question I don't know it's so hard the best thing I could do is like say know yourself I know myself and I know if I pay too much attention to someone else I'm going to compare myself and I'm going to feel like shitty it starts with comparison for me if I didn't know what was going on maybe I'd be in my own world and be like everything's great and I'm just like doing amazing uh I just know that that that heart that hurts it imposter syndrome I don't know I don't have the electric for that one that one is like a struggle even for me today like I I'm nervous before every podcast I'm nervous like before like every post putting myself out there it's hard it's a vulnerable thing that you're doing um so I'm so sorry I don't have a quote for that one you help me how do I get over it I I track my wins I track my wins um I look at all the times I haven't fucked up and I'm like why would I fuck up this time if I've killed it so many times in the past I think that's one thing that I because I also I mean not from podcast for me it's more when I speak on stage I mean it's a pretty classic fear but how did I handle that I just did it more you just do it doing it more does that's a thing yeah do it more and then it'll become easier yeah like they always be that little gremlin that's like like nagging at you um so I think yeah that's smart to just track your wins be like hey like I did this podcast this worked no one yeah no one died you know so I uh I now look for small little speaking gigs just like close to home so I'll just go and do them just on purpose that's that's that's the that's the hack so then when I get put on stage in front of 5,000 people I've done it 30 times that year because there's not many 5,000 plus person opportunities that you're gonna get access to even if you're a big speaker I mean there's only so many rooms that are that big right um so yeah I would just find little meetups little entrepreneurial gatherings and just like let me do my thing let me do my thing I love that I actually do love that because the more you do it yeah for sure even with these podcasts um because this is the most I've done obviously on this book um promotion um the more I do and the more I'm comfortable I'm learning like I don't like the questions before because they trip me out and they get me anxiety um so it's just yeah it's doing a more in learning like what makes you more comfortable and realizing like it's okay it's not that big of a deal usually what you're tripping about there's still much stuff going on the world what you're tripping about is probably like very small so just like relax you tripping yourself out is just gonna make it worse so just take a breather don't do caffeine with more important things which I did this morning um that's my one advice um yeah because of that it ups uh anxiety by the way if you do drink caffeine is another piece of advice because I like caffeine because it helps me like it raises the energy it helps me a little bit like with my thinking and it helps me just you know my clarity of thought but l b and i actually reduces the stress from caffeine so what I found when I get into a stressful situation so it's on a podcast and someone asks me a question or I lose my train of thought or in front of an audience um what i'm trying to avoid is this fight or flight response taking over and then building up and then your cortisol levels and your anxiety and then it's like you can't even you can't even bring it back and because now you're in this yeah i think so that was one strategy yeah i love that the more you trip yourself out because i've and when i've gone into two things really nervous i look at myself i look at and i'm like i'm not even myself but that's so that's also i would also say that in podcasting at least it's my job to make you feel just relaxed like that that's actually my job that's actually why i don't even like doing virtual podcasts because then like a in-person podcast so much more chill it's so much more relaxed but if the podcast host is making this is a lesson for all podcasters if you're making your guest feel like stressed as shit that's not a good podcast no it helps like the conversation like how me and you just kind of like went we're just like talking that's helpful not not us teaching people how to podcast that's not the point of this podcast but yeah no it's like we're getting to know each other like you're technically a stranger and although like we agree to this interview i still want us to treat us like we're just sitting down and like warm me up a little bit don't start off so deep have some you like some life stuff and then move to the handy stuff yeah how is um okay so obviously you know you built the massive brand you built babes um talk to me about how you look at building out your personal brand how you decided to write a book in that whole process because i i mean you're not you're not just the throwing shit into the wind and hoping it sticks you are strategic you built a massive audience which is super impressive and like even right now we're talking about how to launch a business on social in 2024 and you have very specific ideas about how to do it so i know that the shit you're doing is very intentional so oh i should you laughing i mean maybe yeah i honestly we i started this i wanted to write a business book i started when my mom was in the hospital because i had a lot of time with my hands but throughout it it was just this book i just want to tips because that's the type of books i like give me give me the meat how do i get to this from this to that but throughout writing it my publisher they saw some of my story so it became what it is now so that was actually on accident that was something i couldn't let it happen and there's a lot like their strategy and then there's things you just kind of let happen because i knew that my typical boring business book probably would have reached as many people as i wanted it to my story was just it was going to push it further and that's how we ended up where we are now and when you think about where you want to take your brand in the future i mean you set it like socials tough like instagrams tough when you when you write a book this is more for somebody who is in the position of like i want to be a thought leader subject matter expert whatever um like how did you what are you what are you personally using this book for more strategically i guess i want to understand because i'm learning this is i'm selfish too i want to i want to learn how to leverage a book to grow my brand get more speaking gig i'm laughing it's ironic that you had anxiety about going on podcast yet this is this is what you write the book to get more media exposure i know yeah i mean i just want it's all about it's it's the the corny reasons of actually helping people like the honest corny reasons of just helping people that felt like how i did but also the because i'm also thinking business i it's about building my brand so it's like it's about in the end goal it's about making my brand me my actual brand whether other brand i want to start if if i sell this brand or sell that brand it's just about just about building me and that is what the book is hopefully going to do it's just more eyes and more eyes the cheaper opportunity to be successful um yeah i forgot the question but i do i went on that was it that was it that was it okay um when you think about you you built this brand when you built babes a lot of it was through your name so and through and then your social and everything like that have you thought about how to remove yourself from it so that you can sell it is that a concern or no um not right now because i'm still no because i don't think i need to remove myself to sell it i think someone i mean at first of all i wouldn't never sell 100 percent i need a little a little residual give me a little percentage um but yeah i think it's still growing with me like i haven't like had a kid yet or become with child of that's the same thing or you know saying like so i haven't but starting line coming if i have a kid have a kid line coming it's going to grow with me but it's not even personally need these aren't crazy experiences that i'm having these are experienced all women are going to have and that's what i say in my brain it's going to follow the new throughout your life like we'll be with you when you're having a baby we'll be with you after you have the baby we'll offer kids clothes maybe like hopefully in a future i want to start getting old like i just just was looking at older models before this call like women in their 50s women in their 60s because i'm trying to think ahead like once i get that age and i still going to be able to model my brand or promote my brand so it's going to continue to grow with me but it's not still personal that i can't be sold because it's relatable to everyone it's chapters a lot where do you think do you think that there's still massive opportunity for entrepreneurs or even for or you want to take babes like what is untapped right now untowel what i'm working on untapped this girl she reached out to me she's actually another penguin author she is just she just she's a newly disabled person as a five year so she's in a wheelchair and she told me adaptive folding subs and i'm like thinking they adaptive folding clothing or yes she's like it's ugly it sucks they assume that because it's adaptive it's like old people clothes like things that don't have buttons thing because problems with their hands or they need like with um i have a gene brand so she needs something she has to be able to pull up and not unzip um so that's the unsolved place in the market that i'm going to next and i'm working on currently um i love that yeah i love that adaptive folding sucks look it up it's ugly but i'm going to fix that make it sexy i'll make it sexy good i'm i'm down for it i'm down for it um so i guess let's you know i want to i want to send people to go check out what you're building send people to to debate to your social and i'll do a couple just rapid fire to close it out but um is there anything that we didn't go into i'm just giving you the floor anything any words of wisdom advice things that you wanted to go into that we didn't go into yet but if if not that's cool too but i think you did a good job thank you i appreciate it i might i might do a couple more we're uh where can people connect with you where do you want to send people what's your social your website all of that social is sear rogers website searrodden.com easy easy enough all right okay so i would say let's do this um last last couple questions if you were gonna tell your younger 20 year old self one thing what are you looking at me for why are you giving me that face you're gonna tell your 20 year old self one thing it's like the easiest it is like a lob this is like i'm putting this question so you can just like destroy this question so you can just smack it down like gosh you being deep on the at the end okay sorry if i want to tell it's my 20 year old self something i would say if you stop distracting yourself with the way things are supposed to look at look like you would move towards success a lot quicker because i was distracted at that time it's 20 i was like this is the way why cuz he goes to be i'm taking all these steps and they're not working i was spending way too much time on that instead of what i was capable of yeah distracting that being distracted and look at that with yeah all those good things and to say yeah some some shit is about to happen it's gonna like traumatize you so um this traumatic people laugh a lot i hope we can cut a lot of those things i don't want people to think i'm crazy but uh some shit is going to happen um so just don't let it weigh you down too much you can conquer that as well like you've done anything else i love that i think that's important i so so important um you know you built that you built this brand on the sort of owning a lot of your own adversity and owning a lot of the shit that's happened to you and and putting that into it what would be just some advice for somebody that's going through adversity that's going through some shit it could be similar to yours it could be different just like a word of wisdom based on what you went through look it sounds corny but looking at the positive will keep you safe like i was living in a car but i'm like i'd have a car and i'm looking down for it and i'm looking at people on the street i'm looking at the world and how there's not to get political but there's a lot of things happening so it's just like looking up will keep you sane and keep you going towards the right goal if you're going through something when you when you look at all the sort of the success you've had obviously you went from living in a car ten bucks to your name to building a multi-million dollar brand you worked with Kim Kardashian or they shouted you out you were praised by Kim Kardashian and Beyonce which is absolutely wild um phenomenal uh so different seasons to your life for sure but you you look forward you can talk about what success means for babes and for the brand that's cool and maybe just speak on that and where you want to take it but also what does success mean for you in the future i i just want to do something that because clothes are great in fashion is great but i want to like change something i want to do something deeper and i think that i have i made a lot of women feel confident in ways that they haven't felt before i'd like to dive deeper into that i don't know what that looks like for me but i want it i want to make a actual shift in the world and some cut away don't don't laugh that's good don't you know i want it like because i'm going to leave this earth one day but i'd like i'd like to make my mark and more than just making women feel sexy which is great and i think that's important but i'd like to dive deeper into that or whatever that looks like so even it could be the adaptive clothing it could be something else i'm not sure what it is but that will be Michael i love it all right you go what we're gonna say no go ahead i was gonna i was gonna end with i know this is i i just want to say success looks different for everyone not everybody wants to be an entrepreneur like i we talk a lot about entrepreneurship but it's really hard and your version of success may be different um so whatever version that is it's okay um i try not to push that so much because it's like entrepreneurship is hard and it's hard you know not everybody wants to do that you may want to do something else and that's okay by the way not not everyone has to do that either it's it's it's not a mandatory it's it's it's okay it's actually better for us let's compensate yeah no i think i think you know just on that thought we we push we push entrepreneurship and like this hustle culture way too much and we don't really tell people what it is like when you're building your own thing and i think that more people i don't give a shit if both someone wants to build their own company i mean i love entrepreneurs it's all i do now but i think that more people have to understand like what they're getting themselves into i think that's huge because then you have these people that are building and they're entrepreneurs and they're stressed about money and they're isolated and mental health issues and relationship issues and physical health issues and all this shit oh really you can't even talk about the relationship issues when you're not for nor because your relationship is your business and then yeah it's a lot it's a lot that you're getting into a lot of people don't talk about like how hard it's going to be they just show like how great it is because that sells the product that they're selling back on there and be like oh guys i had a bad sales day that's not going to sell any product i have to say like oh we're doing amazing look at all my orders so it's important to talk about like what you're getting into so while someone is in it they they can see and expect it do you think i mean even just to get your opinion because i have my own thoughts on this i think it's very hard i think it's very hard for most people to hold down a really a really strong relationship when they're building something unless you're setting expectations from the gecko because it can be all consuming your energy your time um and i think that it really i think that most people again they don't understand what they're getting themselves into and their partner definitely doesn't either and that can hurt a lot of relationships oh 100% it's hurt yeah some of mine just because it's like my bait it's what i know and i'm such a hustler and i listen i have to i have to do this so you support me on this or goodbye but that's but that is so so not enough people say that and then they let this this thing drag on or there's just a resentment and there and it just keeps growing and growing and growing so they're not saying the goodbye which sucks or they're not even saying that at the beginning which also is incorrect and then there's this massive amount of resentment and hate for each other but it's because you it's this thing that you're trying to build it gets in between and if you knew what you're getting yourself into you could at least set the other person up and set their expectations which i think is very important. I know where themselves which i'm like i don't know how people do it but that's another podcast we'll figure that out on the next video